GridPP PMB Minutes 8 - 29th October 2001 ========================================= Present: Roger Barlow (RB), Dave Britton (DB), Nick Brook(NB), Tony Doyle(TD), John Gordon(JCG), Steve Lloyd(SLL), Robin Middleton(RPM), Les Robertson(LR) Review of Actions ----------------- 1.11 ongoing 3.2 ongoing; recieved post estimates from all expts by today's deadline - see tendering process below 4.7 Have the info now and will get OK from KJP as soon as possible. 5.7 ongoing 6.1 done (by SLL) 6.2 ongoing 6.3 ongoing (all comments to the PMB list) 7.1 done 7.2 done Tendering Process Discussion ---------------------------- Requests for new posts... Atlas/LHCb 4 posts (2 on GANGA, 1 on installations, 1 each for MC production - the first 3 in common with LHCb) BaBar - 5 areas in job submission, metadata, certs/auth, obj, data dist & replication CMS - 5 posts (2 in devs for regional centres, 2 posts on MC, 1 on object replication CDF - 3 posts (2 for adaptation of SAM to CDF, 1 for dev of GUI for data catalogue browsing system) D0 - 4 posts (3 for generalisation of SAM for other users, 1 on MC production) LHCb - see ATLAS submission other - 2 posts for data discovery, etc UKQCD - 2 posts (job submission, data replication, etc...) Need more clarification on BaBar and CDF/D0 The TAG have a working document, but not yet ready for release. (recent new input from JCG)...thus question on whether to delay the timescales. However, since end-points are fixed we can't really play with the schedule. The TAG document is not too usuful after the tendering process. Thus final proposal is that the TAG document is on open release before 9th November 2001 (or else there will be no document publicly released) and semi-decouple from the tender document which should still go out on 2nd November. Originally the tender document was to define quite tightly what would be requested, but this will not be possible in such detail if the TAG document is not fully available. Possibility of some common work between experiments has been mooted, though at this late stage in the process it may be hard to achieve. BaBar was defined as leading the excercise, but this was not deemed acceptable by the others involved. There still remains the common requirements in terms of job submission, data management and getting outputs back. The point was made that experiments should beallocated posts and then asked to advise where they should go, rather than if the guidelines are generic and the institutes asked to bid directly (which would result in a wealth of applications from institutes to increase chances in the final outcome). Thus, 6 LHC, 6 non-LHC and 3 generic is still the general proposal (the existing 5 posts in WP8 of DataGrid would also be in the LHC area). A working allocation was finalised by Thursday that week. ACTION: TD to circulate first draft of post allocation for comment and finalisation by Thursday. Point made that 1 extra for Tier-1 is not enough ... the current 9 + 1 will not be enough to support the expanded role of a Tier-1 centre with international obligations. John has submitted an overall envelope of 14 for the Tier-1, but if the allocation is more likely to be 11 then CLRC would have to say what could be done for that amount of effort. ACTION: NB - to clarify the overlaps between experiments CERN Procurement (see proposal) ------------------------------- Les assumes that CERN buys the equipment and then charges to PPARC, but this still has to be confirmed by NIG. However, CERN needs urgently to start the long tendering process. The proposal includes infrastructural costs (racking, network, cooling, installation, etc.). Disk prices may be a bit low, but the estimate may need revision taking into account raw .vs. useable space. DECISION: CERN procurement approved by the PMB. Next Collab. Mtgs ----------------- Concerns in fitting in with other experiments, GGF and in particular the external review of DataGrid by the EU. Priority would be 1) 14/15th Feb 2002, 2) 21st/22nd Feb 2001 and last 28th Feb 2002 /1st Mar 2002 ACTION: TD to consult Andy Parker on dates and then get back to the PMB. The meeting next week is confirmed...the website is available for bookings...people will be in various B&Bs around Edinburgh. VC facilities are subject to confirmation. PMB will be prior to dinner in NeSC. ACTION: TD to ask Steve Playfer to circulate known participants list via UKHEPGRID list. Future Meetings --------------- PMB on 9th November at RAL will start at 10am (coffee at 9:30am) - JCG will book and organise ISDN VC for Les and Roger.